30 August 2006


Unlike many of my homeschooled counter-parts, I never participated in debate competitions during my high school years. With no formal training in the art of argument, I was thrust upon the secular college scene. Fortunately, I was well-trained in the Bible, apologetics, and varying world views at home. Naturally, when you possess a world view radically different from the surrounding culture, debates will find you quite easily.

Today was debate day for me. It seemed that every time I turned around, someone was challenging me. During lunch break I found myself in a brief skirmish with a favorite ex-professor (about the rapture) and then while eating lunch in the commons room I found myself in a debate about abortion and sexual morality/responsibility with a group of irresponsible males and two very quiet females.

After lunch was American National Government. Class time was basically open discussion about varying political issues. That was fun. Yes, I finally got to express my opinion about the US/Mexico border issue and illegal immigration -- occasionally interrupted by a very close-minded and ignorant blonde. Sorry, but that girl got on my nerves -- I can't stand isolationists.

Of course, the issues of the death penalty, gay marriage, etc. were brought up. My professor basically has a relativist point of view. She stated that our government is polluted by Judeo-Christian ethics and that gay marriage should be legalized, blah blah blah.

"Is murder really wrong? According to Judeo-Christian ethics, it is... but is it really? Depends on who's point of view you're looking at. Does that make the death penalty right? That's just more killing, isn't it?"

"Look, what this all comes down to is the nature of man," I didn't bother raising my hand, "and an absolute standard of morality -- we all have it built into us. Suppose someone steals your car or murders your husband. You want justice -- you want that person to be punished. But did he really do anything 'wrong'? According to the criminal, he didn't do anything wrong. Besides, it's all relative, right? If you look at it that way, we should just ditch government altogether and have anarchy, because everyone should be able to do what they think is right and not have ethics forced upon them."

She then brought up the issue of the separation of church and state... not really addressing my question.

"I'm not talking about forcing any religion on anyone, but if you don't have an absolute standard of right and wrong as a foundation for law and government..." I was interrupted by the growing racket in the back of the classroom, which soon turned into a bunch of separate sub-groups arguing amongst themselves.

Class ended, leaving me slightly frustrated. You can only argue so far with spiritually dead people.
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; there is none who does good. (Psalm 53:1)

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools. (Romans 1:20-22)

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:19-20)

For it is written: "“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."” Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:19-21)

But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. (1 Corinthians 1:27-29)

Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "“He catches the wise in their own craftiness"”; and again, "“The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."” (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)


At 31 August, 2006 05:50, Anonymous mg said...

just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are "spiritually dead" -- that's a pretty harsh thing to say. There are many many ways of being "spiritual" without necessarily believing in Christianity.

maybe you are the "closed-minded" person?

At 31 August, 2006 09:31, Blogger The IBEX Scribe said...

There are many ways of being spiritually wrong, MG, and those who are spiritually wrong by rejecting Jesus Christ are spiritually dead. Without the quickening of their hearts and minds by the miraculous working of God, they cannot fully grasp what right and wrong are and thus cannot or will not comprehend what someone who does understand it means when they argue it from a very logical perspective. There are few people that I have met more functionally closed-minded than those who preach open-mindedness, as they often cannot tolerate (yes, cannot and will not tolerate) anyone suggesting that they might be wrong in their relativistic approach to things.

Carey, I personally didn't bother arguing about things with professors in class. I found it more productive to speak to individual students about it, but that's my own approach. Silence is not necessarily equivalent with shame or an attempt to hide. Sometimes it is best to not answer a fool according to his folly.

At 31 August, 2006 09:42, Blogger Carey said...

Yeah, but then again, it does make some of the students think and we still have conversations outside of class.

Thanks, Angie.

MG, read over those Sciptures that I included in the post. That states it quite clearly.

At 31 August, 2006 12:16, Blogger Barbara said...

"So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." James 1:19 - If we are swift to hear the Master, then He will tell us when to speak and when to be quiet.

At 31 August, 2006 17:55, Blogger Redeemed said...

Well done, Carey. I would have loved to be in your class and would have cheered you all the way. May the Lord bless you for your faithful witness.

At 01 September, 2006 05:49, Blogger Palm boy said...

Argueing with proffessors... I did the same thing yesterday.
Its a lot easier when you've got an ally with you in class.

Curious: What is your position on Illegal immigration, and what was the other lady's?

At 01 September, 2006 20:24, Blogger Carey said...

Professor? But you're 16...

That's a post unto itself.

At 05 September, 2006 18:57, Blogger Revelation 2:17 said...

what did you mean by "isolationist"?


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